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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3218
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Posted - 2014.05.15 06:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Dave Stark wrote:know what'd actually shut people up?
if they took time to actually read all of the devblogs/dev posts on the subject before whining. This. These Dev blog/posts are made long enough before a change to see and understand them first. If you jumped headlong into some training before understanding the change, then that's your fault. We do get to laugh at you, so it's still good. not many people read devposts and the blog should've been updated with the more correct information
although. noone should be reimbursed because they're recieving the full benefit of combat drone operation in the meantime and patch speculation for advantage has always been wobbly |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3220
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Posted - 2014.05.16 05:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
wow well if it was about giving a bunch of players extra sp it'd be unfair
but it's about making sure that what you used to be able to use you can still use
some people can try and game the system for advantage, that's fine, but they don't deserve reward or equal reward for it because that's not the goal of the change |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3228
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 16:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:I edited it. Trying to do 5 things at once.
Basically, if anything, people will be getting free skill points. They take out one skill, but replace it with 2. What is the problem? a devblog provided incomplete information. a devpost corrected the info, but some people who were training skills for advantage feel they're hard done by. they're still gaining both skills. they're still gaining training time. but they feel that because someone else might be getting more "free" sp than they get, they deserve more too. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3228
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 16:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:a devblog provided incomplete information. a devpost corrected the info, but some people who were training skills for advantage feel they're hard done by. they're still gaining both skills. they're still gaining training time. but they feel that because someone else might be getting more "free" sp than they get, they deserve more too. No they don't. CCP is doing this because they have to enforce their "If you could fly it/use it before, you will still be able to after the change" policy. yep, that's the thread.
Quote:You no longer have this advantage against that player. the goal of the replacement isn't to maintain advantage. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3228
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 16:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:Well, it should be the goal
tough. it's not. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3231
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Posted - 2014.05.16 17:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:This is the same tired argument that was had when CCP added racial BC and Destroyer skills. it's the same as when orca prereqs were changed and when itty v prereqs were changed as well. people raging that other players could gain the ship faster than they had. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3231
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Posted - 2014.05.16 17:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:CCP reimbursed learning skills, was that not to maintain advantage those players had? no. it was to ensure that sp were not wasted.
you will recieve skills to ensure that you can use all drones with the same degree of competence as you could before. your skillpoints have not been wasted. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3232
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Posted - 2014.05.16 17:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:They rage because they are not being treated equally. everyone is being treated equally. every single character will be able to use every module with the same degree of proficiency as they could before downtime. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3235
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Posted - 2014.05.16 17:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Xasnevian wrote:[People with only SDO 5 will have better drones than before downtime. sure. i should have said 'at least the same proficiency'. everyone is still being treated equally, using the same policy of 'you never lose anything do to skill changes' that has existed for a long time. and is responsible for treating you and i fairly for every skill change before this that i can remember.
Quote:My SP in CDO are wasted, as I could have put them in another skill and gotten Light drone operation and Medium drone operation for free, after the patch. no. you receive the same ingame abilities ~or better~ as before the change. the replacement is not to give you skills for free. it is to ensure you don't lose anything. people trying to game the system don't get special treatment. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3235
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 18:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:Really? Everyone who had learning skills also could do everything that they could before. CCP reimbursed the SP to maintain their advantage. There really is no significant difference. because skills were removed and training time was lost. in this case, skills are being changed.
Quote:So you think it is unfair for people to lose abilities, but if some people gain abilities and some do not, you call this fair? everyone is able to do whatever they could do before. yes. this is fair.
jeepers, if i'd whined half as hard as this lot when i ~lost my advantage~ of being able to fly itty v when others couldn't |
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3235
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 18:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Gavin Dax wrote:They rage because they are not being treated equally. everyone is being treated equally. every single character will be able to use every module with the same degree of proficiency as they could before downtime. This is blatantly false. i had thought it was obvious but apparently it wasn't. but i've already corrected the mistake.
there's no way to prevent some people gaining something without special-casing... which is not treating everyone equally |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
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Posted - 2014.05.16 18:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Which is why people who currently have the advantage should be given the SP from the now defunct CDO skill to apply elsewhere.
the change isn't to maintain advantage, it's to maintain what abilities you have. the cdo skill increases drone damage of light and medium drones. you will recieve two skills, one of which increases light drone damage, and one of which increases medium drone damage.
when you chose to train cdo, you were told you'd get 25% drone damage for 512,000 sp. thanks to ccp's skill replacement policy, that ability is guaranteed to you. you will never have to spend more sp to keep what you have.
that's the entire point of the change. if some people think they're losing advantage over someone else, that's their own problem.
i'll be flying my command ship, which i can still fly, instead of worrying about who else can fly iteron fives, which i can also still fly. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 18:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Xasnevian wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:You have not lost Skill points. Yes I have. If I trained a another skill instead of CDO, I would have those skillpoints as well. yes. for the miscommunication in the devblog, you do deserve an apology. they still haven't fixed it. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 19:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Which is why people who currently have the advantage should be given the SP from the now defunct CDO skill to apply elsewhere.
the change isn't to maintain advantage Well duh, thats why people are upset with the intended change. Are you a rocket scientist? then they're asking to be special-cased and they don't deserve attention. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 19:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:The special cases are the guys who only have SDO trained to 5 but will log in after patch day with drones acting like they have both SDO and CDO to 5. no. they're receiving the skills that allow them to fly the drones they already can fly. as anyone with cdo trained to v will receive the skills that maintain the same amount of drone damage. what you can use today, you can use tomorrow, as with every other skill replacement.
in other words, they're being treated the same as everyone else.
Quote:No they are asking that CCP allow them to keep the advantage they trained for, or reimburse them because that advantage is being given away for "free". you're not entitled to it. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 19:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
you're entitled to receive the full effect of every skill you train for. if the skill is replaced with another, you receive the new one. which is what ccp is doing, for everybody.
as in the past, where characters have receieved the battlecruiser and destroyer skills for every race. where characters can still fly orcas, command ships and capitals without having the prerequisites anymore.
everyone receiving the new skills did train for them, by having cdo or sdo. they trained for the ability to fly drones or increased drone damage. ccp sees the need to rebalance the skills and in doing so is ensuring everyone can still do what they trained to do.
for fairness. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 19:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:Benny Ohu wrote: you're not entitled to it.
Actually, the issue is that those who didn't have CDO V are not entitled to have the same drone damage as someone who did pre-patch. they are entitled to the new skill. that the new skill increases another attribute is inconsequential to maintaining anyone else's abilities. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 19:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote:It's not about maintaining abilities, it's about the free bump in SP that a character gets when they haven't put the time into the training. sp is a number that has no ingame effect. except making your clone more expensive. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 19:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Xasnevian wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:they are entitled to the new skill. that the new skill increases another attribute is inconsequential to maintaining anyone else's abilities. This is such nonsense. many anger
wow |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:What's missing from your analysis is that the skill effect you train for is "an advantage over players who don't have the skill", and "an equal bonus with those that do". The first of these effects is being removed, so no, you are not getting the "full effect". no, the skill effect you train for is '5% drone damage'. you'll still have that.
Quote: Question: is there a skill right now, which put in a skill queue, will be completely wasted? If I have SDO V now, and I put CDO in my skill queue, am I not wasting it? Ask yourself: *would you put it in your skill queue?* If there ANY good reason to put it in your skill queue now? No.
yes. 5% drone damage.
Quote:You've got to be trolling. This is in no way remotely similar to the BC/Destroyer change, this is in no way similar to the changes to Command Ships or Capitals. CCP didn't give anyone free skills in these scenarios. all are part of their standing policy of 'what you can fly today you can fly tomorrow'.
Quote:I'm advocating that those who trained CDO5 be reimbursed in some fashion because of the lack of need to train the CDO5 skill but still acquire the same advantage. ah, but cdo gives 5% drone damage per level. training sdo has never given 5% damage per level.
we don't have anyone complaining that everyone who trained sdo5 and cdo0 is getting free 25% drone damage, do we? |
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
oh hey i found the old orca reimbursement thread, lawl
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=204010 |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:ah, but cdo gives 5% drone damage per level. training sdo has never given 5% damage per level.
we don't have anyone complaining that everyone who trained sdo5 and cdo0 is getting free 25% drone damage, do we? Not sure if sarcasm. hahaha i think i got it the wrong way around. what does sdo unlock again?
/clears throat
we don't have anyone complaining that everyone who trained sdo5 and cdo0 is getting free t2 drones, do we? |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Which has nothing to do with this. i think it's hilarious is what it's got to do with this
it's players who trained mining barge v to unlock orcas complaining that someone else can unlock orcas without mining barge v.
in both cases, it's players whining that another player will be able to do something the speaker can already do with a little less training, and demanding reimbursement |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
i forgot to switch the skills :S
we don't have anyone complaining that everyone who trained sdo0 and cdo5 is getting free t2 drones, do we?
i mean, ****. do we. 'cos that's just as funny |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:People who have SDO 1 + CDO 5 however will be gifted access to Racial Spec which is also poor implementation in terms of "fairness and equality" fairer than removing their access to what they can fly or gifting sp for an ability that wasn't removed. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Which has nothing to do with this. i think it's hilarious is what it's got to do with this it's players who trained mining barge v to unlock orcas complaining that someone else can unlock orcas without mining barge v. Was Mining Barge removed from the game? No. no, but people're still complaining about ~loss of advantage~ and demanding reimbursement. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3237
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:No loss since they still had something the others didn't. true, though most of them denied ever having used barges or intent to use them. (horseshit)
Quote:5% drone damage relative to what? It's not just 5% damage. It's 5% damage *relative to if you had not trained the skill*. The last sentence is obviously true, because if it wasn't, there would be no reason to train it! 5% damage relative to nothing has no meaning.
Now to say again, you are not getting the "full effect", which is "5% damage relative to if you had not trained the skill", or alternatively "a damage difference relative to everyone else". This is why it makes no sense to train the skill, because that "full effect" will be lost after the patch. no sense to train the skill now, no. i've been enjoying cdo5 for a long time now, though~ oh! and your percieved advantage still has nothing to do with reimbursement. you still have 5% per level.
maybe if everything you used drones for directly compared your drone dps against everyone else's drone dps at the same time?
Quote:Then maybe CCP should just give everyone level 5 in all skills since training them is apparently irrelevant in determining if one should or should not gain access to a skill effect. that's pretty clearly not what i said mate. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3237
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:It's not about maintaining abilities, it's about the free bump in SP that a character gets when they haven't put the time into the training. sp is a number that has no ingame effect. except making your clone more expensive. And it is the mechanism that decides if you can use a module / rig/ hull and how powerful that item is. no, that's skills, silly
Quote:how is this thread still going? the power of love. |
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